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 CoN Table

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Earth

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PostSubject: CoN Table   Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:50 am


My suggestion for CoN table.
Thoughts and opinions are welcome and desirable. Every improvement is good, and i am ready to improve it.
I think the best testing will be on YL flashes.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:11 pm

Egy arm
Egy too op Wink
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:04 pm

I played it vs Goodwin and won as Armenia, Theos played with someone too, and says its ok. Zero thinks the same...From the other hand, it seem as a bit harder to play with Arm than with Egy. Maybe to test it once again with me when we find suitable.
I also tested Spain vs Germans with Milfhunter, cause it seemed unbalanced to him. That matchup is fair.
There are few matchups that Zero suggested to change, and I agree about 2 with him(Brit vs Arm), he says there need a bit more money for Brit, and Egy vs Gaul, at 1st site he seem to be right when says that Egy is op too. Tho I wont change anything before we test it.
However, I dont agree that Greece vs Mace isnt balanced, tho I ll test that with him.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:06 pm

Btw thanks Esra for suggestion, I hope I ll have more of these, so we can make a good table.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:10 pm

greece mac seems fair to me. dont underestimate armoured hop
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:54 am

Mace vs Greece and Brtis vs Dacia, checked cause of some complains and these seem as very fair matchups, so I dont see a reason to change anything there.
Except that there remains to be checked Egy vs Gaul and Brits vs Armenia, there remains to be seen should Greece have 200/300 denarii more vs Spain. Its a very tricky matchup tho and it will be hard to find real balance, imo mostly cause of not so balanced nature of bull warriors. They are sometimes strong, and sometimes weak...

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:04 am

Some thoughts.

I Would maybe take off 500-1k for greece vs germs.
Might have to test carthage/greece against the brits I think maybe brits are a little better.
maybe an extra 500 off rome in rome vs scythia.
an extra 500 for gaul vs scythia.
numidia is better than spain vs armenia, you can give arm its 300 back IMO.
maybe an extra 500 for germs vs armenia and parthia.
numidia pontus 300 extra for pontus.
brits pontus minus 200 for brits.

Will do more later.
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:37 pm

with this money egy vs sele is not balanced for egy , maybe 500-600 more for egy.
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:12 am

Hm, dont tell that to HoS-ians Goodwin, or they will hate you. They believe that 10k for Egy is enough, I think that Madgeh gave 11k for egy or less last CoN lmao.
However, I am quite sure this money is fair. We should do a tryout. I always try to explain theoretically why I gave such money on matchups after the tryouts. So I ll try to do the same with this one, after we finish.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:21 pm

Me and zer0, tested Egy vs Gaul and decided to change the money 16k for Gaul and 11k for Egypt.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:24 pm

Okay the first and most important edit is to nerf Egy across the board. It is too strong.


vs Numidia : Just take away all melee chariots. It should be about even then.

vs Carth : 13,5k should be good

vs Scythia: Try 13k NC

Armenia: 12k 1c is enough to win for egypt

Parthia: 13k for egy should be good.

Spain: give spain a 1k boost

Pont: I think egy can win with any value greater than 12, but the right answer is hard here. Perhaps 12,8?

Rome: 1 chariot should be more than enough.

Brits: 14k.

Dacia: go down to 11k or give dacia a 2k boost.

Germania: Egypt still has an advantage with 11k and no chariots. Germ should get 15,5. Germania has no defense against chariot archers.'

Thrace: Give thrace 16,5 and level egy at 12.


Greece: 13k or 13,5.


Macedon: 12k and 1 chariot maybe.

Sele: 11,5 vs 16.

Gaul: 11 vs 17 nc.

more edits coming






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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:48 pm

Nice to see you ready to make good table Luke.

We will test matches for sure. Also guys feel free to test some among yourselves, I ll trust you on words, also replays would be welcome too.
I will make a problem in that case, only if I am stubbornly certain that I am right about some matchup:).

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:47 am

Okay im moving down the table.

Looking at Numidia:

-Give numidia 15,5 against scythia.
-Get rome down to 12k.
-14k brits vs 15k numidia, no chariots.
-Mace should get 12,2k vs num
-Limit sele chars to three.
-Give Greece 14k vs Numidia.

Overall, this was a pretty good table for Numidia.

Ill be doing more factions soon.








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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:12 am

Except Greece vs Numidia, which is a matchup(my favorite for both sides), and its not hard to prove that, other changes to Numidia seem as much more realistic than some of those you suggested for Egypt. Ofc, evrything should be tested.
I ll be able to test matchups tonight my time with anyone eager.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:36 am

-14k brits vs 15k numidia, no chariots

Also by what odds you gave to Numidia 15k vs Brits 14k/nc, if Dacia vs Numidia is proven matchup?
Brits seem as much much weaker, perhaps you switched suggested money?

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:39 am

If anyone tested some matchups by now, pls write here.
Thanx.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:11 pm

Good job with table, Earth. May I make a few suggestions? Well, hmm, first,  I find that Brits vs Parthia has never been balanced in the history of CON, (keeping in mind Brits has no pikes/Armour Piercing cav that Egy has).. Brits need charz this matchup. May I suggest?:

11.5k 2WC vs 15k

Also Brits vs Gaul, same thing:

10.5k 2WC vs 16k?

Carth vs Brits: Maybe give Carth back the 200 denarii? This matchup is 50-50 imo

Carth vs Pontus: Same as above. Carth should have 15k imo

Scythia vs Spain: Scythia does not need the extra 300 denarii, I feel

Armenia vs Numidia: I think Armenia doesn't need extra 200 denarii

Armenia vs Gaul: -500 Denarii for Armenia?

Rome vs Pontus: Can give extra 200 denarii back to Pontus, imo, I don't think Pontus has the adv in this matchup


Greece vs Dacia/Spain and Rome: I think Greece is a bit too underpowered in these matchups. Maybe 15k for Greece in all these matchups?

Greece vs Thrace: -500 for Greece?

Mace vs Greece: I suggest -1k for Macedon?

Germania vs Spain/Dacia:

-500 for Germania for both these matchups?

Sele vs Scythia/Carth:

I suggest -500 denarii vs both? Also, maybe limit charz vs Scythia to 3 or 4?

But yeah, these are just my suggestions. Otherwise, I think this is a well constructed table. I would love to see the final table! Good job earth!
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:42 pm

the 1k hardly hurts brits, but the chariot archers are still going to be deadly. How about 15-15?(Num v Brits)
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:43 pm

Greece vs Numidia is slightly better for greece. How about 14,5?
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:57 pm

Going to look at Carthage now.

Carthage:

Give spain .5k more.
Give Carthage 15,5 vs pont, or take pont down to 14k. Pont is really much better in the hands of most good players (Not me, its one of my trouble matchups.)
Carth maybe 15,5 vs rome 14,5
Keep brit carth at 15 all.
Let Dacia get 16k.
Max 8 pikes vs Germania?

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:43 pm

Scythia:

-I addressed egypt and num already.
-Spain vs scythia should be 12,5k vs 15,5k.
-Give scy 15,5 vs pont.
-Rome should have 13,5 vs 15k scy. (Nidintu and I have tested this extensively.)
-Give brit 1 strong char and 12k.
-Dacia Scythia should be 15,5k vs 12,5k
-Give Germ 15,5 vs scy.
-Give Thrace 15,5
-Mace should get 14,k vs scy.
-Limit sele to 3 chars and 13,5k and give scy 15,5k.
-Give gaul 16k.


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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:41 pm

Armenia:

Armenia Parthia is not 50/50. Give Armenia 15,5k vs 14,5k
Give Armenia 15,5k vs Pont.
Give Arm 12,5k vs Spain.
Brit will have a hard time winning with just 10.5k, maybe give 11k.
Germania how about 15,7 vs 13,8
Give armenia 15,5 vs sele?.
Gaul needs 18,5k.
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:42 pm

Discussing with any of you w/o testing means little here, except maybe in some obvious mistakes by me. Therefore I suggest you guys start testing these matchups with me or among yourselves. CoN will come swiftly and I feel we didnt moved much toward creating a good table.
I ll be online kinda every day starting from 20h my time, and ready for some testings.
Thanks to everyone for participating in this discussion tho.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:15 am

Can you tell me which I dont need to test because you agree already?
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:25 pm

I tested Brits vs Parthia with T.T and Deathwish before.  It is very tough for Brits to win without any melee chariots and Brits must play perfect. Much easier for Parthia to win in this matchup for Brits n/c . I think Brits need chariots (1 or 2), then increase money for Parthia. Same thing for Brits vs gaul. But at the end of the day, its merely a suggestion. But Brits is not Egypt, it does not have pikes nor armour piercing cavalry, chariots are the only decent cavalry Brits have, and it is very difficult for them to win with without them.
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