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 CoN Table

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Earth

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PostSubject: CoN Table   Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:50 am

First topic message reminder :


My suggestion for CoN table.
Thoughts and opinions are welcome and desirable. Every improvement is good, and i am ready to improve it.
I think the best testing will be on YL flashes.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:37 pm

Ty for all these suggestions guys, but like I ve said, there must be some testing and they should start very soon(immediately).
Luke you gave a lot of suggestions, but most of them are too radical imo and they goes beyond anything traditional that was in previous 10 years of RTW. I agree that there should be some changes, but I am sure that you exaggerated in most of the cases(I am not saying that there shouldnt be changes, just that if there even need some changes in almost 90% of the cases I am sure, there dont need so radical changes).
Thanx especially to you and for your effort, but especially me and you should start testing it on a daily basis several matchups. 00 my time should be acceptable for you. Considering that you are proven player(one of the best for sure) and that you are member of HoS(previous history may be tricky), we need to work very swiftly and very hard on this table.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:12 am

Me and Tara tested Greece vs Mace and its more than fair.
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=05198636806600073218
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=33306560516799540677
replays
We also tested Gaul vs Armenia and we decided to change money for that one to 12.5 for Arm vs 18 for Gaul.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:05 pm

Test greece vs macedon with me pls.
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:38 pm

Earth wrote:
Ty for all these suggestions guys, but like I ve said, there must be some testing and they should start very soon(immediately).
Luke you gave a lot of suggestions, but most of them are too radical imo and they goes beyond anything traditional that was in previous 10 years of RTW. I agree that there should be some changes, but I am sure that you exaggerated in most of the cases(I am not saying that there shouldnt be changes, just that if there even need some changes in almost 90% of the cases I am sure, there dont need so radical changes).
Thanx especially to you and for your effort, but especially me and you should start testing it on a daily basis several matchups. 00 my time should be acceptable for you. Considering that you are proven player(one of the best for sure) and that you are member of HoS(previous history may be tricky), we need to work very swiftly and very hard on this table.

Yeah im open to testing today if you can!
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:15 am

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=00234792609774592450
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=02782815809198129182
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=04481880584951348022
Gaul vs Egy once and for all 11k vs 16k is fair! I ve tested it earlier with zer0, and now with Tara and Termi. These 2 played Gaul Egy and werent able to win with 18k as Gaul lol! . Mean I know why, and I told them whats the trick and the thing where they were making mistakes. I wont spread every trick, tip and tactic publicly around, but trust me, this is more than fair. Ofc that skillful Egy skirmisher will make it hard for Gaul, just as skillful Gaul rusher can do very hard for Egy to do good skirmish. Egy is too soft with 11k to rely on anything else, but only and only perfect skirmishing.
Taking away ca from Egy is suicide for Egy and adding more money to Gaul is useless since Gaul have already absolute melee advantage over Egy. Adding more money for Egy if ban ca, can be fair ofc, but then banning too many units would make matchups too boring and unworthy of any spectating.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:27 am

zer0 wrote:
Some thoughts.

I Would maybe take off 500-1k for greece vs germs.
Might have to test carthage/greece against the brits I think maybe brits are a little better.
maybe an extra 500 off rome in rome vs scythia.
an extra 500 for gaul vs scythia.
numidia is better than spain vs armenia, you can give arm its 300 back IMO.
maybe an extra 500 for germs vs armenia and parthia.
numidia pontus 300 extra for pontus.
brits pontus minus 200 for brits.

Will do more later.
Greece vs Germans, well, I didnt tested it, but since you lost that much vs Luke it should be fair.
Carthage/Greece vs Brits will be changed to 15 15, since I played this matchups a lot lately.
Rome vs Scythia I tested with Nermin and it seem as fair. Termi found new possible way of Scy beating Rome, so removing any money from Rome seem, as too hard to beat Scy.
Numidia vs Armenia, tested with Nermin and it seem as fair.

Remains to be checked Gaul vs Scy, where its very possible that you are right. Germans vs Arm/Parf too, tho since I was beating ppl 15 15 this matchup as Germans, mean some really good players, doubt there need some changing. Numidia vs Pont and Brit vs Pont, where you may be right.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:34 am

I ve also tested Sele vs Egy with Goodwin and he was wrong. It seem from this perspective that Sele need even some reducing of money, let it be 12.5k for now, or 12.3k if many will complain. If someone will, test it with equal skills players, since I wont go back to test matchups i already did, since I feel I lack time to try all matchups. Mean just look at Lukes list of suggested changes lol. It will take some time to test all of that.
Once again, I urge you to test matchups among yourselves guys too, so we can make good table in short period.
Thanks.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:47 pm

Thursday night we will make some progress.
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:39 pm

Rome vs Scy cannot be 15-15.
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:07 pm

Its 14 vs 15 at this point.
The best would be to have several testers for this table, cause I obviously wont be able to test all matches alone.
Like I said, I ll trust simply on replay or on word if something. Exception was Gaul vs Egy where Tara and Termi tested it after I already tested it with zero, so there was the conflict of interests to say like that, so I had to interfere.
I ll try to avoid to test already tested matchups, so I would like that others show some trust too on my tests so we can go quicker trough all this.
After all if we dont make perfect table for this CoN, we will have anyway something better than on previous CoNs and we will have 6months to repair our mistakes for next CoN.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:31 pm

Reducing Egy to 12.3k and adding Sele to 15.5k after some testing and watching replays.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:04 am

Egy vs Dacia 13k no chariots - 15k
Selu vs Dacia 13k no chariots - 16k

what about something like
Egy 12.5k no char vs 15.5k
Selu 12k 2 char vs 15k

not sure on the one but egy is more efficient than selu

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:07 pm

egy and sele should still be easily winning there, zer0. How about 12k egy nc vs 15,5k dacia and 16k dacia vs 12k 2c sele
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:00 am

Terminator and I tested, and Egy 11k vs Numidia 15k no chariots is fair, ill provide replays. I won much more easily with egypt than numidia actually. Additionally, we tested egy vs spain and came to 12k vs 15k no chariots as optimal.


Ill provide replays if asked.
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:01 am

And Earth and I tested and came to as 10k egy vs 17k germ as fair.
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:25 am

K. Num vs Egy 15 vs 11nc and Egy 12nc vs Spain 15.
I ll post all changes by now tomorrow.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:43 am

12.5k Egy vs 16.2 Dacia, tested me and Luke.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:38 am

Me and Luke agreed that Egy 12.2k/2chars vs 16k Rome is fair.
We also decided to keep Germany vs cata factions, money from current table after some tests.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:05 am

Egy-Mace changed to 12.5k vs 15.2k.
Egy-Arm changed to 12.3k 1c vs 15.5k.
Egy-Parf changed to 13k vs 16.2k.
Tested with Luke.
Luke, correct me if I am wrong somewhere, I am too sleepy, so I cant remember exactly were these money changes right those we made lol.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:33 am

Terminator and I decided through tests

13,5k egy vs carth and greece is fair
13k egy vs 15,5 scy is fair nc
scy 15,3 vs mace 14,5 is fair
Parthia 15,3 vs mace 14,7 is fair
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:14 am

I definitely need replays vs Greece/Carth and Scy vs Mace. For others, its fine.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:47 am

Ask terminator, im not in my city atm.
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:07 pm

num vs ger, num vs scy, ger vs scy should be fixed
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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:59 am

Ok, I saw the replay Scy vs Mace. There is 0 explanation why you guys changed that way money.
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=09063457993264822483
It was too close, even Termi played terrible, especially in the beginning. Luke also had wrong move with archers, still, its uncomparable mistake with how Termi played. And once again, it was close.
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=64535780665867237285
This one replay wont help much to determine right money.
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=08967221505601850511
However, this one proves everything imo. Prolly the best option for mace beside rush is to play this way. Great tactic, perfectly executed by Termi and still failed.
I say 15 15 again and I am 100% for this.
For greece/carth vs egy, since we are short with time, I suggest we agree on at least 13.7 for egy there.
Me and Termi tested Carth vs Dacia and agreed to raise money to Carth for 300.

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PostSubject: Re: CoN Table   Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:51 pm

Earth, the replay was WITH the money change. I won with 14,5 vs 15,3, even while not trying hard. We should play this match, because it absolutely needs to be changed. If macedon plays intelligently and with good micro there is a very low chance for scythia.
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